Let's talk 600s

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Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:13 pm

Various factors have me considering switching to a Japanese bike next season, the two main reasons being cost and availability of parts for these bikes and the fact that I'm starting to believe that the Japanese bike may be designed better and therefor may be easier to ride/setup suspension wise. I talked on FB a little bit with Tibow and he (and Roger) have stated that the R6 is the best 600 platform, and that the GSXR is crap. I'm thinking I can spend only about 5k, and with the season ending there are some great bikes to be had on WERA. Before I commit to anything though I wanted to get some opinions about the 4 manufacturers and see how important each positive and negative is. So going bike by bike;
 
R6: PROS: Best chassis, great brakes, decent amount of OEM and aftermarket used parts.
      NEGATIVES: 04-08(I think are the correct years) engines like to explode, slightly more expensive than GSXR/ZX6R
 
GSXR PROS: Cheap, with cheap parts all other the place, lots of people familiar with them/working on them.
          NEGATIVES: IDK, apparently they are crap lol, suspension and chassis are not great is my understanding, maybe down on power some?
 
ZX6R PROS: Fairly reliable from what I understand except from what I've heard there are transmission issues, fairly cheap with decent aftermarket support
         NEGATIVES: Transmission unreliable, heavier than the other 600s
 
CBR PROS: Supposedly very reliable and Honda obviously knows how to build a great race bike
        NEGATIVES: More expensive than the 600s, both the bikes and the after market parts as well as harder to find used bit and pieces.
 
Obviously I'm searching the internet and googleing like crazy but frankly I now work the second shift and its more fun for me to BS on the ASMA forum then read reviews from people I don't know
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby Roger@Arroyo » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:02 pm

I've ridden all the modern 600's, and they're all capable bikes with ability to get over 115hp on a normal dyno. Here's my opinions.

1. R6. Best Chassis with a good motor. 06-07 you need to keep fairly fresh bearings in them or they'll eat the crank. Replace them every year and a half or so should be good for most. 08 and up you can go a bit longer. Pipe, Power Commander and U4 and it's got competitive HP.

2. CBR. Competitive power fairly easy, good chassis, but parts are more expensive. Pipe, PC, U4 and it's got the power.

3. Kawasaki. Easy but not cheap to get competitive horsepower. 07-08 model still competitive as long as the motor is fresh. Needs Kawasaki kit ECU and harness, plus power commander and pipe to get competitive HP.

4. Suzuki. Chassis is good enough, not quite as much feel as the R6 though. Biggest problem is getting competitive horsepower and staying reliable and legal for supersport classes from what I've heard.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby sweetr6 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:44 pm

06-07 R6 went boom. 08 model got bearing and other engine and slight chassis upgrades. My 08 has been a track bike since I broke it in. I bought it new in June of 08, put 1000 gentle miles on it and took it to the track. It will have 4 full seasons on it next month with no motor troubles. Handles amazing, reliable and it's pretty fast. I've never seriously ridden anything else so I can't say it is the best bike out there but I would highly recommend one. It needs a kit ecu or ecu flash so the butterflies stay open over 14k rpm. I'd go so far as to say it is the most popular 600 race bike and parts are readily available.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby dbrucemx8 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:54 pm

Well my '05 R6 will be for sale after this weekend
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby speedracer170 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:38 am

Love my 09 GSXR 600, only thing I don't like about it is it's down on power. GSXR's are easy to work on, alot of people ride them so there is alot of data out there, and parts are easily available.

I have heard alot of good things about the R6, once you get all the emissions crap removed I hear they make good power. Used parts are hard to come by for the newer bikes.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby speedracer170 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:40 am

Alex T. is selling his GSXR
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby speedracer170 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:41 am

Alex T. is selling his GSXR
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby blendedfamily » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:09 am

Or, just buy a 1k. Point it towards the next corner, hit the throttle stop, hope the tire keeps spinning and doesn't catch.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:46 am

Roger@Arroyo wrote:I've ridden all the modern 600's, and they're all capable bikes with ability to get over 115hp on a normal dyno. Here's my opinions.

1. R6. Best Chassis with a good motor. 06-07 you need to keep fairly fresh bearings in them or they'll eat the crank. Replace them every year and a half or so should be good for most. 08 and up you can go a bit longer. Pipe, Power Commander and U4 and it's got competitive HP.

2. CBR. Competitive power fairly easy, good chassis, but parts are more expensive. Pipe, PC, U4 and it's got the power.

3. Kawasaki. Easy but not cheap to get competitive horsepower. 07-08 model still competitive as long as the motor is fresh. Needs Kawasaki kit ECU and harness, plus power commander and pipe to get competitive HP.

4. Suzuki. Chassis is good enough, not quite as much feel as the R6 though. Biggest problem is getting competitive horsepower and staying reliable and legal for supersport classes from what I've heard.

Thanks Roger! Yeah I'm leaning towards a CBR or R6 if I can find one with all the goodies for the right price. I do keep finding great deals on the Kawis though, but it also makes me wonder why they are selling. It's like that old saying "for every hot chick you see somewhere there's a guy tired of putting up with her shit" :twisted: I noticed you recommend mapping for U4 with all the bikes, is it not possible to make safe good power with pump gas :drunken: ? How much is U4/Gallon I thought i had heard like 10$? I also worry about any bike that's had major engine work done as they seems less reliable afterwards. I'd prefer a unmolested bike :alien: I've been beating on the Triumph for a while now and the engine is still running strong

PS are there any years to avoid with the GSXR or CBR? The R6 was already noted
Last edited by tuscani451 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:47 am

speedracer170 wrote:Alex T. is selling his GSXR

Hmmm do I know him?? Can't remember?

@Tony yeah I've lowsided so many times maybe I should mix in a few highsides, you get a new bike afterwards right :mrgreen:
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby R-silaxin » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:36 pm

My R6 will probably be for sale here in the next month or so... I've done a ton to it... If you were interested... I'll be out at the track this weekend if you want to check it out so you've got an idea... A TON of work put into it by myself...

I personally love the R6, especially on the track... Coming from two GSXR's... Course the R6 is the first bike I've ever had on the track. Just got the ECU flashed and a few other goodies too, so this thing should RIP this weekend!
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby speedracer170 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:41 pm

tuscani451 wrote:
speedracer170 wrote:Alex T. is selling his GSXR

Hmmm do I know him?? Can't remember?

:


Alex thompson is the guy in the big motorhome that usually parks next to me. Blue and white GSXR
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby Roger@Arroyo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:57 pm

Normally the U4 is worth about 5hp on a 600 vs pump gas. It runs about $80 for a 5 gal can. I don't believe anyone is running it here right now, which is a good thing because if nobody is running it, nobody else has to.

So, Kevin Edgington's 07 Kawasaki 600 made 119.2 on the ESP dyno. It had a head gasket, kit ecu, pipe and power commander. On pump gas it made 114 iirc. Still fast for a dependable 600. The R6 and Honda are pretty close to those same numbers, the Suzuki is about 8hp lower from what I'm told.

Do not be afraid of the 07-08 Kawi's. The 09, people had alot of trouble getting the front end sorted with the big piston forks.
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:08 pm

R-silaxin wrote:My R6 will probably be for sale here in the next month or so... I've done a ton to it... If you were interested... I'll be out at the track this weekend if you want to check it out so you've got an idea... A TON of work put into it by myself...

I personally love the R6, especially on the track... Coming from two GSXR's... Course the R6 is the first bike I've ever had on the track. Just got the ECU flashed and a few other goodies too, so this thing should RIP this weekend!

I'd love to get a chance to check it out, unfortunately I don't think my wife is gonna let me leave the state for a couple months at least. But shoot me some info/pics if you feel like it
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:12 pm

Roger@Arroyo wrote:Normally the U4 is worth about 5hp on a 600 vs pump gas. It runs about $80 for a 5 gal can. I don't believe anyone is running it here right now, which is a good thing because if nobody is running it, nobody else has to.

So, Kevin Edgington's 07 Kawasaki 600 made 119.2 on the ESP dyno. It had a head gasket, kit ecu, pipe and power commander. On pump gas it made 114 iirc. Still fast for a dependable 600. The R6 and Honda are pretty close to those same numbers, the Suzuki is about 8hp lower from what I'm told.

Do not be afraid of the 07-08 Kawi's. The 09, people had alot of trouble getting the front end sorted with the big piston forks.

Well more power is always the answer, :albino: don't listen to Loren :mrgreen:

What about the supposed weight issues with the kawi?
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby ZF67 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:12 pm

My 2008 ZX6R. Race tech springs, k&n filted, i hack sawed the cat out and welded in a strait pipe with a slip on, and changed the gearing.....thats the only crap ive done to mine, And i beat the hell out of it, and granted i buy the most expensive Repsol oil i can find and i keep up on maintenance. Im pretty happy with it. Actually i think maggie gets jealous because i love my jap girl TOO much lol. (But if it was me, leif, get a r6 people go fast on those things pretty easy)
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:19 pm

ZF67 wrote:My 2008 ZX6R. Race tech springs, k&n filted, i hack sawed the cat out and welded in a strait pipe with a slip on, and changed the gearing.....thats the only crap ive done to mine, And i beat the hell out of it, and granted i buy the most expensive Repsol oil i can find and i keep up on maintenance. Im pretty happy with it. Actually i think maggie gets jealous because i love my jap girl TOO much lol. (But if it was me, leif, get a r6 people go fast on those things pretty easy)

Yeah but your bike is powered by rainbows, butterflies, and wedding cake, no one can compete with that lol
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby blendedfamily » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:38 am

hang out for another month or so, most people's seasons are ending soon, lots of bikes for sale, might be a better opportunity. I've got a bitchin' deal for you on a GSXR 1000 just to keep you off of those stupid 600's...
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby tuscani451 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:27 pm

blendedfamily wrote:hang out for another month or so, most people's seasons are ending soon, lots of bikes for sale, might be a better opportunity. I've got a bitchin' deal for you on a GSXR 1000 just to keep you off of those stupid 600's...

Yeah I'm gonna try and be patient, most of the bikes for sale now are on the east coast. I'm not rideing a liter bike, my throttle control is so shitty I could high side a vespa
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Re: Let's talk 600s

Postby blendedfamily » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:52 pm

been there, done that. I'll unplug two of the spark plugs for a while, you'll be fine.
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