stablizer crap

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stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:46 pm

So I have been doing research….. and I am here to ask your opinions. Steering stabilizers and dampers, there are long linear ones that have a long shaft, and there are small radial ones that mount on and turn.

Linear- fragile during hard crash, bigger, but because they have more and longer or stroke I believe that they would be accurate and wear better, because as the front tire turns it has to move the shaft a longer way and there for if you have a little play in your stabilizer it would not be affected as much, where as….

Rotary-made stronger, compact, but it seems to me that because the entire range of motion is only like 1” vs the approx 4” that the linear has, that even the smallest amount of “slop, or freeplay” made in the damper would be more exaggerated because the smallest movement in the front tire would affect the smaller range of motion greater.

So what are some of you guys running, I was almost sold on the GPR v4 until I read like 1000 reviews of everybody saying that they leak, and they send them off, and they leak again….so im thinking not so much GPR anymore :/. Then I read about Hyper-Pro and how they have so fancy “active valving” crap, but how much of that is actually real, vs just hype talk?...... then you have the classic Scotts.

So what are you guys running? Pro’s con’s? did you even notice difference with/ without a stabilizer? If so where? Under hard breaking? Accelerating? Transitions? I have never owned a bike with one, and have been racing/riding almost forever….what am I missing?

****my zx6r suffers from head shake VERY hard. i have almost went highside A couple times because the front tire starts bucking and kicking lock to lock and has thrown the pads back into the calipers a couples times (on a side not I know that the rake of the front end has a huge effect on the “stability, and shakiness” of the bars, and lowering the tubes in the clamps and/or rising the back, and decreasing the rake angle – effects the stability, but for the most part I don’t get the chatter/bar slapping under hard breaking. I get it when I am accelerating and the front tire makes contact with the ground after being carried for a bit, it has done it getting on the free way, and twice at arroyo. Its so bad that I have almost crashed HARD at like 100+ because it has kicked my a$$ out of the seat and upset the bike so bad…..i really don’t feel safe riding my bike till I can get this problem fixed because its just a matter of time till I crash HARD because of this problem****

-thx a lot guys
Last edited by ZF67 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby blendedfamily » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:03 pm

is your frame straight? have you played with some geometry changes? I've used the scotts on one GSXR and I thought it worked well. I've got a GPR on my current bike, and i've had some gnarly head shake problems with both bikes, most of which was fixed with geometry changes, not just the stabilizer.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:13 pm

see thats where i am at ^^^ DTR performance here in arizona set up my bike for firebird main. when i was racing ccs, and they said something weird about my model years zx6r having a spacer of some sort where the rear shock mounts (on the top side) to the frame. and when he pushed my fork caps down and made them smooth with the top of my claps (increasing the rake, it obviously makes the bike turn slower) but i didnt have any shake problems that i could remember, and then when i started adjusting the bike for arroyo , we slid the tubes back down into the clamps, and now i have about 3-4 mm of my caps and legs showing ontop of my tripple clamps i am having GNARLY shake problems again, but i like how the bike turns in now, an it rails around corners awesome. so is it more or less finding a "sweetspot" in the front fork tube to tripple clamps depth, or is there a way to keep the same rake, and fork set depth, but try to get rid of the kicking and ripping the bars out of my hands another way?

so tony could you even tell the diffrence between the stabilizers when they are on the bike? one vs another?
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby blendedfamily » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:19 pm

has somebody good with setup touched your bike? (no offense). Maybe you need somebody with a lot of experience to get on the bike and feel it out so you can get a better idea as to where to go with the setup. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever, but I havent ridden the other bike in a few years...
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:24 pm

^ honestly nobody, dustin at DTR is one of the fastest guys on the west coast, but he just kind of turn knobs here and there and adjusted it sitting still, never rode on it after.

and roger rode my bike around for like 2-3 laps months back and said make a few adjustments here and there. but for the most part, its still a long ways away from being good.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby blendedfamily » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:37 pm

hmm.. maybe it's time to make some more changes.. fuck with it a bit, and see what Roger thinks. Roger is my "go-to" guy, for setup, (and everything else, sexual favors included), and he's pretty good at it. Evan from ESP might be around this weekend, too, he might be worth schmoozing up to for some ideas.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:40 pm

NICE! thx mate. might want to bring some of my "special" Christmas cookies for the set-up guys to enjoy when they get done helping me....incentive you know :hippy2:
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby blendedfamily » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:44 pm

bake me something! Just not green, I get "randomly tested" once a month! And, I'll be sure to crash your bike for you. I'll at least give it a good run and tell you whether you're a pussy or if the head shake is real.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Only girls get head shake under acceleration….b*tches
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby kz2zx » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:47 pm

Either style's fine, Z.

If you have headshake, look at your steering bearings being loose/shot. Under acceleration, huh? Look at your swingarm angle (your droid phone has an app you can download called 'bubble' to measure the angle. Have someone hold the bike upright, hold a yardstick between the swingarm pivot and the rear axle, and read the angle off your phone.), it ought to be about 12.4-13.0'. If it's not, one end of the bike or the other is off... Other things can be fork wear or shock/linkage wear, and bent frame.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby Lucky13 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:34 am

ZF67 wrote:see thats where i am at ^^^ DTR performance here in arizona set up my bike for firebird main. when i was racing ccs, and they said something weird about my model years zx6r having a spacer of some sort where the rear shock mounts (on the top side) to the frame. and when he pushed my fork caps down and made them smooth with the top of my claps (increasing the rake, it obviously makes the bike turn slower) but i didnt have any shake problems that i could remember, and then when i started adjusting the bike for arroyo , we slid the tubes back down into the clamps, and now i have about 3-4 mm of my caps and legs showing ontop of my tripple clamps i am having GNARLY shake problems again, but i like how the bike turns in now, an it rails around corners awesome. so is it more or less finding a "sweetspot" in the front fork tube to tripple clamps depth, or is there a way to keep the same rake, and fork set depth, but try to get rid of the kicking and ripping the bars out of my hands another way?

so tony could you even tell the diffrence between the stabilizers when they are on the bike? one vs another?

Zack, the only way to drastically change rake angle is off-sets in the steering head. What was changed mostly by moving the forks in the triple tree is called trail. Your steering is also affected by rear ride height. Stabs will help slow down some of the head shake but you'll still have it. I'm not a huge fan of steering stabs in that with Jeff's bike, I use the lowest setting. I have several of the old school style in my garage if you want to give them a try. The mounts are what's needed for your bike.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:34 am

Awesome thx for the input guys. Ya like i said , its only like a once a weekend. Problem, like ill be coming out of the corner rolling it onto w.o.t. 16 grand shifting into 3rd gear and the front tire will set back down and start kicking the bars rearlly hard trying to rip them outta my hand. So i try to pull in the clutch and wrestle the bike back and try to save it till is good enough to get back on the gas.

So i use a measuring tape, and measure the distance from the swing arm pivot bolt to the the rear axle on each side to make sure they measure the same on each side to make sure my rear tire is set straight? Even though the measurements change when u adjust ur chain, as long as both are the same it should be fine?
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby chefboyartie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:00 am

Make sure the front tire is coming down straight. Even with it slightly cocked you'll get a head shake. I've had that problem out there. I've also tightened up on the bars afterwards, only to make it worse. A much better rider told me that if you are doing it right a stabilizer is not necessary but better riders have told me many things and I'm still slow, haha.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby kz2zx » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:51 am

ZF67 wrote:So i use a measuring tape, and measure the distance from the swing arm pivot bolt to the the rear axle on each side to make sure they measure the same on each side to make sure my rear tire is set straight? Even though the measurements change when u adjust ur chain, as long as both are the same it should be fine?



I don't think you've quite got what I meant... I mean the ANGLE of the line between the pivot and the axle relative to the ground. It should be set up for most bikes to be about 12.4 to 13.0 degrees. This means the rear's not too high or low relative to the front, and the front isn't too high or low, relative to the rear. It's a good measure because if you have your bike set up tall (like my 1K7), you can still get the geometry 'right', even if (like my 1K7) I'm 31mm taller than stock geometry.

Headshake on touchdown is most likely nose-high due to lack of 'anti-squat' (swingarm angle too flat/rear shock length or shim too low) or steering bearings.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby sweetr6 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:00 am

I'm far from knowing much about bike set up but I had that issue a couple times; bringing the forks back to flush helped. Shortening the wheelbase a little seemed to bring back alot of the agility lost by changing the front end without bringing all that shake back. I can ride confidently with the dampener off but it does help a little with the small occasional head shake, which is nothing close to the amount I had or what you describe. Fixing the bike should be priority 1. Dampeners shouldn't be used as the fix all, just a safety for the big moments that can cause head shake. I use gpr and haven't tried anything else. It works fine but it is leaky. Scott seems to have more adjustment and steering limiter built in. Linear ohlins type seem to be very effective and reliable.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:08 am

on a side note. finally got my new body work painted and broken parts all fixed from my crash. my new 2013 race season body :D
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby kz2zx » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:09 am

The RED angle, Zach:

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Re: stablizer crap

Postby ZF67 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:12 am

kz2zx wrote:
ZF67 wrote:So i use a measuring tape, and measure the distance from the swing arm pivot bolt to the the rear axle on each side to make sure they measure the same on each side to make sure my rear tire is set straight? Even though the measurements change when u adjust ur chain, as long as both are the same it should be fine?



I don't think you've quite got what I meant... I mean the ANGLE of the line between the pivot and the axle relative to the ground. It should be set up for most bikes to be about 12.4 to 13.0 degrees. This means the rear's not too high or low relative to the front, and the front isn't too high or low, relative to the rear. It's a good measure because if you have your bike set up tall (like my 1K7), you can still get the geometry 'right', even if (like my 1K7) I'm 31mm taller than stock geometry.

Headshake on touchdown is most likely nose-high due to lack of 'anti-squat' (swingarm angle too flat/rear shock length or shim too low) or steering bearings.


got ya. the angle to the ground, that makes more since now, understand. so take the swing arm pivot, and lay a ruler to the rear axle and get that angle, and take that compared to the flat ground, to look for your 12.4-13*....got it, thx :)
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby blendedfamily » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:48 am

ZF67 wrote:Awesome thx for the input guys. Ya like i said , its only like a once a weekend. Problem, like ill be coming out of the corner rolling it onto w.o.t. 16 grand shifting into 3rd gear and the front tire will set back down and start kicking the bars rearlly hard trying to rip them outta my hand. So i try to pull in the clutch and wrestle the bike back and try to save it till is good enough to get back on the gas.


No no. Relax your grip a bit and stay in the throttle. Getting off the gas loads the front too much too fast and will make you die. Ass to the back of the seat, stay in the gas and pull back on the bars a bit.
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Re: stablizer crap

Postby kz2zx » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:57 am

Tony, I used to have this 04 ZX-10R you should have had the chance to try that with, once. Well, if you had $5500 to put in my hand when you tried it, that is...


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