Diesel Fun...

All non racing related discussion

Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Keeping this separate from the Christmas loot thread.

The 6.0 PSD in the Excursion tow-vehicle/wife's modern station wagon had sprung a minor oil leak in June, then a new major oil leak the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. The leak before Thanksgiving was about a quart in 10 min of running, and was four streams of oil draining (not dripping, draining, steady stream to the floor. Not individual drops... would empty the truck in about four hours draining) from the bellhousing.

But dye in the oil showed EVERYTHING under the truck was wet with dyed oil.

And it dripped while parked, engine off. Some, you'd think, was oil from the leaks-while-running dripping off whatever it got onto. But it kept dripping at the 'minor-oil-leak-since-June' rate while not running. WTF, right?

Inspection (with a borescope because the top of the motor is so damned congested) of the galley under the intake manifold shows oil. First I pull the turbo and turbo drain/oil-return tube. That plopped right out on it's own weight, meaning the o-ring had been shot. But the truck leaked oil again immediately upon restart after the new tube was installed.

Then, I bit the bullet, and pulled everything off the top of the motor and replaced the HPOP cover gaskets, the IPR screen, the STC (Snap-to-connect) HPOP oil-rail fitting (notorious for failing and shutting the motor off while driving, no restart); I pull the EGR cooler and intake manifold, and (the really expensive part) pull the oil filter housing, fuel system (fuel filter housing is integral with the oil filter housing), and oil cooler cover. The oil cooler is $270, and it was fine, as was the EGR cooler, but I replaced the oil cooler anyway as insurance (like the IPR screen and STC). Since I don't run Ford Gold coolant (the HOAT stuff with the silicates that cause the major 6.0 PSD oil-cooler/EGR issues), all is well, and the engine is now 'Bulletproof'.

On general principles, I change the RHS valve cover gasket, because I became convinced it was leaking - a quick crank with fresh dye in new oil ($$ for the oil) gave me a real bright hit in the last bolthole at the back of the engine.

Two weeks ago, then I cranked it up, and we're back to the original minor-oil-leak-since June (I think there were three leaks I fixed - two under the oil cooler cover, where the gasket looks to have failed as there was brown weepage marks and no 'line' of the gasket, and one on the valve cover). "Wife," I said, "Drive it."

There's fresh oil at the front of the oil pan, dripping at the crossmembers and suspension bones (fresh dye, remember?). I cannot see SHIT in the front of the motor due to Ford's fan/stator/shroud/ducting. The borescope's useless after a certain distance. Everything looks wet. A quick call to the dealer and ask, "What on the front end of the motor do you sell the most of, from the front-cover outward to the radiator?"

They tell me "Oil pump cover and seal". So, I do some quick internet research, and I have a choice: simply replace the seal, and have it fail nearly immediately (no one has good luck with the direct seal replacement), or replace the oil pump cover (the oil pump is like a planetary gear/Roots blower arrangement on the front of the crankshaft between the timing/front cover and the harmonic balancer). If you replace the cover, the new style seal in it gets a wear-ring (steel ring that slips over the crankshaft end) and a slightly different seal that rides on the wear-ring. The new seal is infinitely better in that it doesn't leak within weeks/months of install.

Okay, but... there's a catch. There's always a catch... there exists a Ford tool (actually made by Rotunda tool, and it's not the Shell Rotella oil you're thinking of) to press on the wear ring and install the seal and ring to the correct depth, but it's $240. So, I find a place called Freedom Racing that makes this tool. You can rent it for $50 and pay shipping both ways, or buy it for $120. I bought it.

That arrived last Friday. Today I pulled the radiator... was able to save the coolant and filter it into a bucket. I suspected I'd need to replace the ATF fluid, when I separated the trans lines from the radiator, I found it's brown and stinks, so tomorrow I change the inline filter and drop the pan and change the pickup filter in the transmission, too. $$ for both filters and 8 quarts of Mercon SP.

Back to the saga... got the fan clutch nut off with a pipe wrench and a BIG-ASSED cheater bar (and a screwdriver through the fan pulley. The fan shroud bolts at the bottom broke out of the fan shroud instead of letting go, because they have adjustable-length studs behind them to space them from the block. Nothing on the Internet warned me this could happen :/

Glued the eyes back onto the shroud and clamped them (this means it's not going back in until the urethane glue cures tomorrow).

There's a SHITLOAD of room in the engine with the radiator and fan stator/shroud out... got the impact in, and 'brrrip! Brrrrrwhurrrriiiiip!' the harmonic balancer bolts come right out, and a moment or two later, I'm holding 40lbs of steel balancer over my head, doing my old-guy leprechaun dance of happy joy.

Only... the oil seal wasn't leaking.

I replaced the pressure spring bolt and pressure regulator, and I think that WAS leaking the drip-drip-drip of the parked truck (the engine-off leak).

I replaced the oil-pump cover and the seal there (hey, I don't EVER want to take the truck apart this far again), and replaced the balancer and installed a new serpentine belt. Dunno why people say serpentine belts are a bitch, it was super-easy with the front of the truck exploded...

This is a great stopping point. Tomorrow I'll return the excess parts I got, not knowing what I'd find, to the dealer. I've got the LHS valve cover gasket so I'll replace it - the dye suggests the frontmost-lower bolt area is leaking, too, but not 'fast'. I'll replace the transmission filters and swap the 8qts of fluid I can get to without pulling the trans apart to get to the torque converter, and I'll button the truck back up.

If it leaks oil after this, I will trade it in in a few months. Double car payments means no racing, btw. It's also still unclear if I will be moving, as I'm still looking to get the hell out of my current job, though I have apparently survived all the layoffs as they're now trying to hire people (new graduates for cheap...).

Read it all? Thanks.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby speedracer170 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Good luck with it, if you need some help I hear Greg is for hire :mrgreen:
Cody
09 GSXR 600
AM 825
User avatar
speedracer170
Racer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:08 pm
Location: Holloman

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby blendedfamily » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:51 pm

:shock:

i dont even know what half those words mean...
User avatar
blendedfamily
Troy McClure
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby EP_Shane_600 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:22 pm

Sounds like it was more work and parts then that POS is worth.
User avatar
EP_Shane_600
Racer
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: El Paso, Tx

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:07 pm

EP_Shane_600 wrote:Sounds like it was more work and parts then that POS is worth.


Book value is about 9,000. I'd rather not take another payment on right now, will reevaluate in a few months if it's still leaking. Otherwise, runs fine - and I'd just sunk ball joints (also my own labor) and tires into it. It'll need shocks and tie rods if I keep it.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby JazMan » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:52 pm

I feel for ya man, I need to swap out the injectors on my Duramax and am dreading that !!! Diesels are great and a Excursion is awesome, I wish Chevy would have put a diesel in the Suburban , would have bought one in a minute !!!
Rossi dreams with PeeWee Herman skills !!!
JazMan
Crew Chief
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:27 pm

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby blendedfamily » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:13 am

JazMan wrote:I feel for ya man, I need to swap out the injectors on my Duramax and am dreading that !!! Diesels are great and a Excursion is awesome, I wish Chevy would have put a diesel in the Suburban , would have bought one in a minute !!!



Maybe they do, or did -- when I was with the forrest service they had 2500 chassis for some of the Suburbans, can't remember if I saw a diesel though...
User avatar
blendedfamily
Troy McClure
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby sweetr6 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:12 pm

PSD= Piece-of-Shit Diesel, right? Get a Cummins, do some minor custom fab and dop it in. Easy fix.....
sweetr6
Crew Chief
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:44 pm
Location: Hell Pisshole Tx.

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:07 pm

sweetr6 wrote:PSD= Piece-of-Shit Diesel, right? Get a Cummins, do some minor custom fab and dop it in. Easy fix.....


Emissions checking in Maricopa County. No-go.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby trussdude » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:07 pm

TL;DR :)
User avatar
trussdude
Wheel Changer
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Peoria, Arizona

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:09 pm

trussdude wrote:TL;DR :)


:D

Today's update...

I'd put the fan stator, fan, radiator back in, and for completeness' sake, swapped out the other (LHS) valve cover gasket. Went to go reconnect the transmission cooler lines... problem.

The Ford design is to run 90% of the transmission fluid in circles in the 5R110 (TorqShift) tranny, with 10% running, not in a bypass filter like the older 4speed/overdrive 4R100, but to an inline filter with the two transmission oil coolers. Huh? There's one cooler, a 1.5"x1.5"x18" brick in the bottom of the radiator, and another, in series with the first one, but mounted in front of (i.e. on the cooler-air side), a 26-row 'auxiliary' cooler.

The cooler in the bottom of the radiator 'floats', held on by the snap-to-connect transmission line fittings. The fitting screws into the cooler through the radiator wall, holding the cooler tight and making the seal there. The 1/2" transmission line is pushed into the fitting, and it goes 'snick'. To take it back out, or separate it, you're supposed to use a line-separating tool. Not unscrew the fitting from the trans cooler.

Guess which I did last week?

The tool ($24, overnighted from Amazon) comes tomorrow, since I could not get both sides to rethread into the cooler. I could get one side, or the other, but not both. I'm sure I have compromised the sealing (there's an o-ring inside the fitting), so I'll buy new ones from the dealer tomorrow morning and throw the old ones away when I get them off.

With enough searching, I found the fittings on http://www.fordparts.com (CONNECTOR - OIL TUBE Part #: 4C34-7D273-A), $4.00 ea. The tool was made by a bunch of different folks, I chose a metal one that was Amazon-Prime so I could overnight it to me.

Tomorrow, I'll throw the radiator back in (with the fittings holding the tranny cooler in first), then finish buttoning the truck back up, refilter and reinstall the coolant, then drop the transmission pan and change the filter there, then the inline filter (fingers crossed there's no drama here...). Last thing I'll do is flush the hydroboost/power-steering, and I'll call it a job.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby sweetr6 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:04 pm

Then drop in a cummins when it leaks again.... and job done.
sweetr6
Crew Chief
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:44 pm
Location: Hell Pisshole Tx.

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby speedracer170 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:41 am

JazMan wrote:I feel for ya man, I need to swap out the injectors on my Duramax and am dreading that !!! Diesels are great and a Excursion is awesome, I wish Chevy would have put a diesel in the Suburban , would have bought one in a minute !!!


Have you tried the bottle of injector cleaner that you get from the dealer? Check out the duramax or chevy forums, I've had a few friends that had injectors going out and they did it and they said it worked like a champ and kept them from having to replace them.

Check this out:
http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/how-t ... aning.html
Cody
09 GSXR 600
AM 825
User avatar
speedracer170
Racer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:08 pm
Location: Holloman

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:26 pm

I am Mechanico!

(Seb is probably laughing at that. Long story.)

UPS delivered the transmission tool today at 9:08 pm. It's now 9:25...

I got the transmission lines separated from the fitting, and discovered that in my attempt to install before, I'd lost a sealing washer inside the radiator on the LHS mount for the internal-to-the-radiator trans cooler, and the RHS threads were rounded/crossthreaded, in some of the softest damned aluminum you'll ever see.

Well, I don't happen to have a 1/2" NPS tap handy (and I bet you don't either). The best threadcutter is the bolt that came out, right? I salvaged the thread and got it to thread correctly, pulled the washer out with a special wire hook I keep for just such an eventuality and reinstalled it, and BAM! the transmission cooler's FIXED.

About to head into the garage and reinstall the radiator.

update at 10:20: rad installed, lines reconnected, hoses back on. Tomorrow the CAC tube (intercooler to intake manifold), battery tray, battery, coolant, trans flush & filters, PS/Hydroboost flush.

It had better not leak.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby EP_Shane_600 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:01 pm

On my cadillac i plugged thise holes on the bottom of the radiator and put an external tranny cooler on there.
User avatar
EP_Shane_600
Racer
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: El Paso, Tx

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:40 pm

EP_Shane_600 wrote:On my cadillac i plugged thise holes on the bottom of the radiator and put an external tranny cooler on there.


Ford used BOTH for the PSD - one in the radiator, AND a 26-row in front of the radiator. There's a 39-row upgrade available for $490...
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Diesel Fun...

Postby kz2zx » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:41 pm

Okay, trans flushed, power steering/hydroboost flushed, truck driven for 20 miles.

STILL four spots of oil under the truck, these by the bellhousing. Much less than even last week, so the regulator bolt and RHS valve cover must have had an effect. I estimate that drip remaining to be less than a pint a month.

Wife and I (she's still cleaning the garage, I just got out of the shower) have decided to live with the leak at this rate indefinitely (because it's probably coming from the rear main seal).

So, what the HELL caused so many oil leaks to spring up around the truck all at once?

Is it at all possible it was the oil-change place we use (we have a lifetime oil change deal for $5.99, all 17 qts and a filter, with dino, not synth, oil, every 3000 mi, though we change it at 5900-7000. That cost us $700 back in 2005...)? Some other folks are suggesting they overfilled it, springing all the leaks.


Final Tally:
STC & HPOP Gasket kit
IPR screen
Oil Cooler & gasket kit
Fuel System O-ring kit
8 qts Mercon SP
Trans pan gasket
Trans pan filter
Trans inline filter
Trans line tool
Updated Front Crankshaft Oil Seal Cover
Updated Front Crankshaft Oil Seal
Oil Pressure Regulator bolt, spring, slider kit
Freedom Racing Front Crankshaft Oil Seal Seating Tool (Rotunda 303-761)
Yamabond 1194
Victor Reinz Intake Manifold and O-Ring Kit (didn't use the VR gaskets)
Motorcraft Intake Manifold Gaskets (used these instead)
Motorcraft Serpentine Belt
Motorcraft Upper Radiator Hose
Updated Turbo Oil Return Tube & O-Ring
2 Fel-Pro Valve Cover Gaskets and Hi-Tack (don't tell me the gaskets are reusable. They aren't after the Hi-Tack because I was for DAMN sure not having a leak)
2 gal Chevron Delo AF (Antifreeze. Note: NOT the Ford Gold HOAT. This stuff works towing in Arizona in the summer, and doesn't cause oil-cooler issues, I've been using it since the original dealer repair for the oil-cooler)
17 qts Chevron Delo HD (oil)
2 batteries (under warranty, thank Heaven)
Assorted cleaning supplies (brushes, OilEat/SimpleGreen, rags, paper towels)
1 Craftsman 12mm Deep-Well 6pt 3/8 drive (because the black hole under the motormount ate it)

and some other incidentals.

I have receipts totaling $1418.12. I don't know what my time would be worth, I'm no Master Tech, but didn't fuck up too much too badly (nothing unrecoverable, certainly), figure $50/hr? Then $2000 in my labor, too.
ASMA 47
WERA 147
User avatar
kz2zx
ASMA Racer
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ


Return to Non Race Related

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron